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               Docked or Natural Tail?

My choice is FREEDOM of CHOICE.

I find it amazing that some folks think leaving the tail changes structure!!

 

I am Loren Chiever, this is my web site, and my opinions, it is not intended for any purpose except to voice my views.

 

UPDATE  11/15/11

The ARC Board of Directors has approved a proposed change to the Standard, it is to be published in the next ARK Newsletter to read this proposal go to;  

http://www.amrottclub.org/2011/Tail_Standard_Revision_11-11.pdf

Even though it is not a perfect proposal, it is better than the way the standard is now, and it should help stop the battle that has split person against person and friendships have been lost over.

 

It is a shame that these things have happened, and that we can not agree to let there be a choice of the type tail we would like, I guess that is human nature to only want what we think is right.
 
I will support this, even though it is not perfect, it at least openly addresses the issue, and gives a judge that will consider a natural tail a guideline to judge by.

 

 

 

I have owned Rottweilers for close to 25 years, and in 2000 I imported a tailed male from Germany.  I intended to show him but due to misfortune he did not turn out to be a show dog, not because of his tail, but because of an injury.

 

When I bought him this is what I wrote:

A little tail commentary from Loren: It is really different to have a puppy with a tail. It makes it very easy to read his thoughts, when he is into something new he tucks the tail between his legs, as he gets accustomed to it the tail moves up and begins to wag, there does not seem to be the fanny wiggle, but the tail sure gets going. Like I stated above it makes it real easy to tell when he is going to the bathroom, or looking for a place to go as the nose goes down the tail goes up.

I know it is a major concern of many people that Germany does not allow tail to be docked. Many people believe that it ruins the appearance of the dog. I for one find the tail different but something I could live with. It does not change the attitude of the puppy, nor do I think it changes the structure that makes him what he is, it just gives a tail that is a signal device for the dog.

It is a shame that Germany had to change the standard to satisfy the laws of their land. But it is also a shame that I can not import a puppy from Germany, from the breeder and breeding of my choice, and keep the tail on him and compete in the American show ring on an even keel with the docked dogs.

The politics of the Government of one Country and the politics of the dog community in another force me to make a decision, one do I keep the tail on my dog, keep him as a pet, never show him and expect to win, show him in AKC and listen to the gossip and criticism, and show him once or twice a year in a USRC show. Or do I dock his tail, cause him how much pain I do not know, just so I can please the American show people, and give up my chance to show him in USRC shows or the chance to take him back to Germany and show him if I should so choose.

In my opinion, it is a shame that the politics of either side get in the way of us enjoying our dogs, and keeping them healthy and happy, I would love to be able to keep my puppy the way I got him, I could very easily learn to live with the tail, and I find it attractive already. But so I can conform to the rules of the governing body of the dog game I want to play I will have to dock my dog, not for any other reason but so I feel I have as good a chance of winning as any other person does. Talk about dumb rules, how about this for a "DUMB REASON" to dock my puppy, "SO I HAVE AS GOOD OF A CHANCE' to win as any other person has.

We can talk about government interference all we want to, but as long as the people like me are willing to go against what we believe just to please the masses, we don't need the government to tell us what to and what not to do. WE can do as we want, and still not do things right.

UPDATE March 17, 2000: The decision is made Quint will keep his tail. 
Mary and I have learned to live with it and have decided that Quint should keep it. We will show him in USRC, and AKC even knowing we probably will not win, and if he turns out to be as pretty as we hope, our plan is to take him back to Germany for the Klub Show in 2001.

Here is the link to pictures and my comments in 2000, http://www.hollyhouserottweilers.com/quint.htm

 

AKC Board passed a New Judges guide line in April 2011 that States: 

Individual Examination of Dogs Judges are expected to examine and gait every dog in the same objective, breed-specific manner even if a poor specimen may clearly be out of the ribbons. This includes breeds that according to their breed standard traditionally have been cropped and/or docked and dogs entered which may have deviations from the breed standard. Approach dogs calmly.  Examine each with a gentle but sure touch and no sudden, surprising moves.

To see the official Minutes of the April AKC Board meeting go to this Page:

 

The ARC Board at their May 2011 Board meeting voted

 to not allow this information to be part of the package  presented to new judges that they mentor: 5.4-5/25: Motion to approve adding to all Judge's education materials  for the American Rottweiler Club the attached guidelines and comments from the American Kennel Club,

to replace material or references that are in conflict with such AKC policies.
Motion & Call the Question: Jeff Shaver; Second: Jim Runck.
Approved: JR, LB, JS; Disapprove: LC, AG, JG, MP, JF; Did not Vote: SL Failed: 5/28/11

To see the official minutes of the April ARC Board meeting go to this page:  http://amrottclub.org/2011/ARC_Board_Motions_May_2011.pdf

For Sieger shows that ARC sanctions, like the one the day after the ARC National this year in Pennsylvania,

 this description of a tailed dog is used as a judges guideline: 

http://www.arcsiegershow.com/tail_standard.pdf  

FCI/ADRK ROTTWEILER TAIL STANDARD

http://www.adrk.de/5_standard_e.htm

Copied from the ADRK Web Page:

Tail: In natural condition, level in extension of the upper line; at ease may be hanging
 

Faults:

Tail: Set on too high or too low.

Eliminating Faults:
Tail: Kink tail, ring tail, with strong lateral deviation
 

 

http://www.adrk.de/5_rutenhaltung_e.htm

Even though this description and similar picture is approved by the ARC board, and membership

 to be used at ARC sanctioned events that are called Sieger shows, they refuse to change

 the Standard that is approved by AKC to include the same description, so that Judges

that are required to judge Rottweilers with tails have a description to follow.

 

Even though there is no description of the tail in the standard, and no fault listed for

a natural tail, many judges have in the past dismissed tailed dogs due to lack of merit,

 or because they do not conform to the Standard as written, But there have also been

 many judges that have awarded tailed dogs points, majors, and have judged them

on equal grounds enough that these dogs have earned an AKC Championship.

 

V-1, AKC CH, Can CH Friendly Dutch Ijsven AD, CGC

 

 

American Champion

International, Austrian, DT.VDH, ADRK Champion 2008 IFR

World Sieger & Best in Show

2006 ADRK KlubSieger 2008 Hungarian KlubSieger 2011 SARK Sieger,

2010 USRC Southeast Regional Sieger

2007 Swiss KlubSieger, 2005 & 2007 Austrian KlubSieger

 2005 BundesSieger, 2005 EuropaSieger

DJUKE vom Vilstaler Land SchH III, AD, ZtP, BH, TT, CGC, RTD

 

AKC CH KARTHAGO vom Vilstaler Land

 

These dogs have earned AKC Points:

NIRK Grand National Sieger and Best in Show 2010
NIRK Grand National Sieger Show Best Stud Dog 2010
NIRK North American Sieger Show Best Stud Dog 2010
FoCRRC Sieger and Most Beautifull Male in Show '09
 IFR World Champion Couples (w/Redwood Krest’s Ecora) ‘08
IFR Campeonato Mundial Mejor Pereja ‘08
Argentina Champion ‘08
 West Coast Landesgruppe Sieger, Best male and Best in Show '08
 West Coast Landesgruppe Sieger + Best in Show '08
FoCRRC Sieger and Most Beautiful Male in Show '08
WWR International Sieger + Best in Show '08
ARV Southwest Regional Sieger '08
ARV National Sieger '07
ARV Northwest Regional Sieger '07
Multi Youth Sieger in Germany
AKC Major Pointed
Multi V1 rated

Wasko vom Mariannenthal II
SchH/VPG I BH BBT
Pink Papered German Import

 

 

Canadian Champion
AKC Major Pointed
International Champion USRC National Sieger 2004
USRC Southwest Regional Sieger 2004 USRC Southwest Regional Sieger 2005
Pet Therapy Dog

Lord von Bickesheim II

 

Deutscher Champion ADRK, Internationaler Champion,

Deutscher VDH Champion USRC NS'09

Herbie vom Gruntenblick BH ZtP AD SchH III

 

June 27, 2010 EIFELSHOW BG BLATZHEIM Germany
July 31, 2010 International Dog show BREMEN Germany
 Open class V 1August 01, 2010 National Dog Show BREMEN Germany
August 15, 2010 BG Dusseldorf im ADRK Dusselschau  Germany
May 02, 2011 ARC REGION III  U.S.A.s  SIEGER WINNER
April 25, 2011 AKC all Breed Show U.S.A.  BEST OF BREED

CH Hugo van het Falconsnest

Hugo finished his AKC Championship in Michigan

November 12, 2011

 

QUECKE VOM HAUSE ANIN

Had both majors and 7 points before her untimely death.

 

and I am sure there are others that have earned points because of the

quality they are.

 

 

 

A Sad Side Note:

Through all of this battle there have been several tailed dogs that have been imported, and their owners decided to do an adult amputation of their tail so they could be shown in the AKC ring and win.  Some were shown a few times and then we did not see them again, and some went ahead to become AKC Champions, but either way, they had to go through cosmetic surgery to avoid the stigma of having a tail, and so the owners could win a ribbon.

 

 

I am curious what all the battle and cries against tails are, when these dogs have all ready fulfilled the requirements to earn an AKC Championship, or have earned points toward their Championship with the standard written as it is.

 What harm has been done to the breed because these dogs have earned points, and what harm will be done if other tailed dogs follow in their footsteps?

 

It seem sad to me that so many people spend so much time worrying about a few tailed dogs entering a show ring, and so little time worrying about what laws are being passed in many states, counties and cities to outlaw even owning a Rottweiler.  I guess the concern is that even though they can not own the dog of their choice, at least if they could own it, it would be docked.  

Makes sense to me.

 

I received these comments from Danielle Green, a long time Rottweiler breeder and handler and thought they should be shared:

Another point is that showing dogs is to evaluate them for breeding stock, That is the purpose of the AKC shows and any other show.  to not be able to show the tailed dog is a limit our gene pool.  Not smart at this time with all the
health problems we have in Rottweilers.  Maybe if we bring the tailed import in to our gene pool with the stricter standard for breeding and evaluation we could improve our elbows.  With some breeding dogs with bilateral elbows that are grade two or even grade one it will come back and get us, look at the Lab.  The elbows are one of the biggest problems in the breed, many have to have very expensive and painful surgery to correct the problem, or if the person can not afford it put down.
And now we are doubling up on these dogs with grade two and one elbows, we need to think about the furture of the breed.  

Then there is the missing tooth issue, in Germany one missing tooth is a DQ, so the breeding stock has a lot clearer background as far not producing missing teeth.

So many dogs are not bred because they don't meat the higher standards set by bred wardens.  Why not take advantage of this.

To make it a serious fault for a dog to have a tail is totally wrong, it does not effect any thing as far as the gene pool.  Other serious faults do deal with faults that do effect the dogs ability to do its job.

Had a long talk with Sue Varoom this last weekend about this issue.  She comes form Bouviers and she thinks most Rott people that are
fighting the tails are doing a big disservice to the club.  With the bigger issue of fighting to own and bred dogs is a lot more important and needs the time, money and effort spent on it rather than a tailed dog.

Danielle

 

Here is a link to a place where you can express you opinion on this issue, I don't care which side you are on, your opinion has the same importance as mine, the only thing is I will moderate the opinions, and any that attack any person or dog will not be posted, and I ask that you include you name and e-mail address, as I have included my name and my e-mail address so I can be contacted about my opinions, I am willing to put my name on my opinion, and I think anyone else should be willing to put their name on theirs.

Loren Chiever Click to e-mail me.

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